Gay dads celebrate Father’s Day with Rick Warren, author of “The Purpose Driven Life”
The following day, the families will join leaders from Saddleback Church for a private meal and conversation.
The visit is the conclusion of a six-week journey, a gay-friendly family road trip, to initiate dialogue with mega-church congregations across the nation. In December 2007, organizers of the project – which is called The American Family Outing – invited the leaders of six major mega-churches to match families from their congregations with LGBT families for a meal and conversation. Then, on Mother’s Day 2008, the outing began with a visit to Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas.
As of June 16, 2008, The American Family Outing will have met successfully with all six of the churches. The meetings have ranged in size and depth; Lakewood Church welcomed the families to worship but would only meet privately with one of the Family Outing’s clergy leaders, Pastor Jay Bakker. In contrast, Bishop Eddie Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Georgia met personally with LGBT families from Atlanta and around the country.
“The meetings have been an occasion to clear up misperceptions on both sides and to begin to focus on what we have in common,” says Jeff Lutes, Executive Director of Soulforce and one of the organizers of the American Family Outing.
Lutes and his partner, Gary Stein, along with their three kids, will be participating in the visit with Saddleback Church. Members of the Lutes-Stein family have also visited Lakewood Church and The Potter’s House in Dallas. They will also join families visiting Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois on June 8.
“It’s not your average summer vacation,” says Lutes. “But it has been an amazing experience. In the end, we’re doing it to make a safer world for our kids, so it’s all worth it.”
Clergy leader Jay Bakker will also join the families for the visit with Saddleback.
The American Family Outing is a collaboration between Soulforce, COLAGE, National Black Justice Coalition, and the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches.
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June 8, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Jim Jordan
Hi
Kim,
Is there any hint of what these meetings came to. A “gay Dad” is by definition an adulterer and anything but a promisekeeper. Granted, we are all sinners but somehow I don’t get the picture that that was one of the things they “had in common” that they would’ve talked about.
June 8, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Kim
This is about the meeting that was held with Joel Osteen
Later, Jay met privately with Joel Osteen and two senior church leaders. Jay released the following statement about his conversation:
“Joel Osteen and his family were very kind and courteous. They reserved special seats for our group of families, and they spoke compassionately to me on the first Mother’s Day since my mom’s death. But our conversation indicated that they do not share our convictions and that Lakewood Church is not yet ready for an open dialogue with LGBT families. I believe it’s important for the church to have these conversations, because we are all one body. Open dialogue can dispel the fearful misperceptions that keep us apart. In the end, it’s about communion and loving one another in spite of our differences. I have hope for the future that LGBT families will be able to meet with Lakewood Church eventually.”
A report from the Dallas Voice:
“Bishop Jakes was unable to be present and meet with us that Sunday, but our visit was a rich experience.
“Before the service was over, those of us who were designated to meet with some of the staff of the church left for the meeting.
Early on in the meeting, I sought to set forth the “why” of my commitment as an ally/advocate of LGBT persons and same-gender-couple-led families.
I attempted to link my civil rights experience for racial justice to that of the justice struggle for gay rights, but soon realized that our hosts were unwilling to engage in give-and-take on our disagreements.
They sought to impact us with their ministry to people with HIV/AIDS, but were unwilling to say that they acknowledge same-gender-loving persons as such, ill or not. All of our group raised questions and/or made helpful comments. Both sides expressed a willingness to engage in further conversation.”
It seems to me that these two meetings did not go well. (Praises) It will be interesting to read about WillowCreek and Saddleback.
June 8, 2008 at 6:31 pm
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June 8, 2008 at 6:31 pm
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[…] Comment on Rick Warren’s Latest – Gay Father’s Day by Kim“Joel Osteen and his family were very kind and courteous. They reserved special seats for our group of families, and they spoke compassionately to me on the first Mother’s Day since my mom’s death. But our conversation indicated that …Comments for DiscernIt – https://kimolsen.wordpress.com […]
June 8, 2008 at 7:23 pm
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June 8, 2008 at 9:51 pm
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June 9, 2008 at 5:27 am
ric booth
I, for one, am very glad this exchange is taking place. The church has too long treated gay persons as the leper of society. A gay person feels completely unwelcome in our church communities, which can only mean we are not welcoming.
June 9, 2008 at 8:30 am
Kim
A gay person feels comfortable in certain churches because the truth is not being taught there. The Bible teaches against homosexuality and sodomy.
June 9, 2008 at 8:41 am
sweetly
I too am pleased that there seems to be an open dialogue only is as much as I have a deep hope of transforming the gay mind. Amen to Kim.
June 9, 2008 at 9:32 am
Joshua
If these lying pastors weren’t hypocrites, whoremongers, and altogether enemies of our souls, they would tell the homosexuals to repent. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” says the Lord Jesus.
June 9, 2008 at 4:46 pm
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July 28, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Martin
“Thou shall know the truth and the truth shall TRULY set you free”. These mega churches nurturing the gay/lesbian community are signs of “Rebuilding the Tower of Babel” The reality is these so called “pastors/bishops/teachers” (and I do not like to call them pastors) are only looking out for themselves, they call themselves Sr. Pastors when the only TRUE Sr. Pastor is our Lord Jesus Christ. They are trying to keep the people in deception just like “their” god satan has done for many years. As my brother Joshua said, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” .
December 18, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Kevin
Jesus never once mentions homosexuality in any of his teachings. Why is this bad? If you actually do follow Jesus’s “word”, then the whole being against the LGBT community thing is wrong. If you wanted to live completely by the bible, then you should probably not watch or play football, because it touches the skin of a dead pig, oh and divorce is out of the question.
God created all of us in his image, that includes gay people. God is pure love and one day, if he/she ever does decide to come on down to earth, he/she will look around at the churches that have been claiming to preach his/her word and say… “WOW, you people really got it wrong”!
December 19, 2008 at 12:31 am
Getting There
1 Corinthians 6:10-14
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:10 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
however the gospel is for them, that they may be transformed into the likeness of His Son. The law is not made for the righteous but for those who are going against God so that the law will reveal to them their sin.
1 Timothy 1:9-12 (New International Version)
9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
The bible is pretty clear on these things!
December 19, 2008 at 12:34 am
Getting There
by the way God is not a ‘she’… pray for truth 🙂
December 19, 2008 at 1:21 am
Kim
Thank you for the verses Getting There…
Here are more about what the Bible says…
Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed because of homosexuality.
Gen 19: 5-7 “They called to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them…” Lot answers, ” Don’t do this wicked thing”
Gen 19: 14 “..Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city.”
Judges 19:22-23″…some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house…bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him….The owner of the house said, ‘No my friends don’t be so vile…don’t do this disgraceful thing.”
Romans 1:26-27 “..God gave them over to shameful lusts…Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received themselves the due penalty for their perversions.”
December 19, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Kim
I was thinking about what Kevin wrote.
Not about the pig thing ( we are free of this now) and yes, God hates divorce. The sad thing is that Christians are divorcing just as fast as the secular world which tell us the bad state of the church today.
Unbelievers are seeing the hypocrisy of the church and they right to call us on it.
The above verses condemn the gay life. But ALL sin and are considered unclean in the sight of the Lord. This is why we have changed lives when we give our lives to Christ. We can’t do it on our own. We can’t change our depravities. It is only through the belief and following of Jesus that we have hope. It is the confession of sin that cleanses us.
When we break one of the ten commandments we break them all. I guess what i want to say is that homosexuality is wrong, but so is stealing, greed, lying.
All of these things need to be brought before God. It is when we confess our sin, believe in the shed blood of Christ, that our lives can be truly transformed.
Many churches, books and newage religion thought all say. God is love. THis is so true but God is also a judge, He is holy, and He is coming again. We all will have to stand before Him and explain our lives to Him and all things will be exposed to everyone. Our thoughts, our deeds which we imagined are hidden forever …will be displayed for all to see an hear when Jesus returns and judges all. God is pure and holy and He cannot tolerate sin. He gives us a way out. It is belief on what Jesus did on the cross.
This makes me want to be follower of Jesus. My accounts have to be short. You see i am no better than anyone else unless I have the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior. I am a sinner who daily, make that hourly, needs to confess my shortcomings, fears and sin.
I beg all to come to Christ. He can change your life. He is the only way.
December 19, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Jeff
I think in addition to scripture we can ALSO look to experiance or some basic reason.(sorry my Wesley past is acting up again) Can we also look to the duckys in the pond? The way I always saw them was the mother duck, father duck and the little baby duckys. Call me silly but I don’t remember a boy and boy duck or a girl and girl duck.Just the way I see it anway,
Christ is lord.
Ps. Scripture first – just my 2 cents.
December 19, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Getting There
Jeff, you are so correct on your insights here.. nature tells us how things should go.. I have never seen two male ducky’s together.. what a great symbolic way of clearing things up there!